So often our government is referred to as a democracy. Even the elected sometimes miss name the type of government established in the constitution. We are a republic. It’s good to have that clarified from time to time. Thanks for posting this message today.
So Heather Cox Richardson and Joanne Freeman would say that is like saying you have a beagle, not a dog. A representative republic is an implementation of a democracy whereby the people have a say in the running of their government through elections. Sadly in an effort to dispense with a bare majority rule the founders over corrected in my opinion. As the bulk of the population moved to cities the electoral college (and 2 senators per state) creates a structure where the minority overrule the majority by a large margin. This allows a minority party who consistently loses the popular vote to force their will on the majority. Ultimately we must ask - do we as a population want the majority of the people to win elections such as the presidency or not. And if not, why not.
I have always wondered where this idea comes from that our founders gave us a blended democratic republic. Every single reference they made to democracy suggests the opposite. They hated and feared democracy. Even the full Hamilton quote here suggests the same.
I have piles of quotes from various founders who reject democracy outright. I doubt there is a single reference in favor of democracy in any form by any founder who is responsible for what we ended up with.
Consider this: Madison emphatically declared in Federalist 43 “As long, therefore, as the existing republican forms are continued by the states, they are guaranteed by the federal Constitution. Whenever the states may choose to substitute other republican forms, they have a right to do so, and to claim the federal guaranty of the latter. The only restriction imposed on them is, that they SHALL NOT exchange republican for anti republican Constitutions.” (emphasis mine)
Perhaps the confusion is this idea that republicanism is deliberation and compromise. It is much more specific and nuanced than that. Republicanism is a lost to history organizational principle where elected officials are nominated by neighborhood delegates--something they learned from the Iroquois which created a dual incentive between governed and governing to stay connected to each other. That dual incentive (or covenant as they called it) is the real basis for republicanism because it is the actual practical principle that gives people control of their government.
“A democracy is a volcano, which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction,” Ames thundered. “These will produce an eruption, and carry desolation in their way.”—Fisher Ames at MA state ratifying convention 15 Jan 1788
“Thus not only does democracy make every man forget his ancestors, but it hides his descendants and separates his contemporaries from him; it throws him back forever upon himself alone and threatens in the end to confine him entirely within the solitude of his own heart.” (Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” as quoted in Andrew M. Scott, Political Thought in America, New York: Rinehart & Co., Inc., 1959, p. 225.)
John Adams: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide” (1814).
While the founders certainly created the best system they could have, they simply could not have forseen some of the issues that ended up destroying the system they built. The Civil War and the 17th Amendment (pop election of senators) effectively ended states rights and sovereignty. The 16th Amendment (income tax) gave the federal government unprecedented power through the purse and along with the lack of term limits helped create a powerful, elite ruling class of career politicians. I have no doubt they would have addressed some of these issues more clearly had they seen what we have become.
As well as the allowance of dark money in politics and unlimited corporate contributions along with gerrymandering, all which supremely distort the idea of a majority voice and facilitate a small, powerful, mainly white, wealthy class to oversee everybody. This is going to crumble eventually as the vast majority of people become unhappy with the gov as they determine they aren’t getting their needs met nor are fairly represented. One issue that threatens to overturn the powerful few is abortion. In fact it is already making a huge difference in recent elections as women and youth are rising up to vote in favor of those who support this once understood constitutional right. The 2024 elections will be interesting. If enough pro democracy folks gain power we may see term limits, the undoing of the electoral college, the overturning of unlimited corporate donations, the end of dark money and the banning of all gerrymandering which would go a long way to restoring the power of the majority of everyday people. And that is a lot, but who knows...
Alexander was a smart cookie for sure. Our founding principles were(and are)sound. It is unfortunate that we lost our sense of true deliberation and compromise to give the people all of the freedom they deserve.🇺🇸
Popular Vote winners seldom are the best candidates for an elected position. So, yes, Hamilton got it right. Just look at what’s going on nationally with State Election offices…especially the ones where conspiracy theories still exist surrounding the 2020 election! Yikes!!
I disagree. Consider for example the margin of Clinton over Trump (3 million votes). And she was clearly the better candidate. And Gore over Bush. Just as examples.
I don’t know your political perspective and don’t care. I tried to base my comment agreeing with what Hamilton wrote. Not necessarily disagreeing with you but having said that, I didn’t vote for any of those candidates in both those elections. So, saying Clinton and Gore were better candidates doesn’t mean anything to that argument. You didn’t ask but my belief is none of those you mentioned were particularly impressive. So, thanks for your response. I appreciate it.
Our Constitutional Republic became the most Prosperous and Generous nation the world had ever know because our National and State legislators and Judiciary followed our Constitution as written!
Now, as we move further from Constitutional governance?
It is very difficult for me to respond to today's post without becoming terribly negative. The lack of term limits and the presence of greedy career politicians has made our Constitution a barely recognizable foundation of the Federal government.
Alexander Hamilton and his fellow founders would not recognize the government they created.
People come together to solve problems. Each with its own motivations, but willing to compromise for the common good. Each having a common respect for the other. Wow! And to think had zippers been invented yet?
Tara, a special friend was kind enough to share your Hamilton note with me. Thank You for being the True Patriot with a quill, I'm looking forward to reading more of the great knowledge You freely share,
So often our government is referred to as a democracy. Even the elected sometimes miss name the type of government established in the constitution. We are a republic. It’s good to have that clarified from time to time. Thanks for posting this message today.
So Heather Cox Richardson and Joanne Freeman would say that is like saying you have a beagle, not a dog. A representative republic is an implementation of a democracy whereby the people have a say in the running of their government through elections. Sadly in an effort to dispense with a bare majority rule the founders over corrected in my opinion. As the bulk of the population moved to cities the electoral college (and 2 senators per state) creates a structure where the minority overrule the majority by a large margin. This allows a minority party who consistently loses the popular vote to force their will on the majority. Ultimately we must ask - do we as a population want the majority of the people to win elections such as the presidency or not. And if not, why not.
God Bless America! 🇺🇸 May we always fight to protect & preserve our great nation. 🇺🇸
If only the current folks in power understood this principle.
I have always wondered where this idea comes from that our founders gave us a blended democratic republic. Every single reference they made to democracy suggests the opposite. They hated and feared democracy. Even the full Hamilton quote here suggests the same.
I have piles of quotes from various founders who reject democracy outright. I doubt there is a single reference in favor of democracy in any form by any founder who is responsible for what we ended up with.
Consider this: Madison emphatically declared in Federalist 43 “As long, therefore, as the existing republican forms are continued by the states, they are guaranteed by the federal Constitution. Whenever the states may choose to substitute other republican forms, they have a right to do so, and to claim the federal guaranty of the latter. The only restriction imposed on them is, that they SHALL NOT exchange republican for anti republican Constitutions.” (emphasis mine)
Perhaps the confusion is this idea that republicanism is deliberation and compromise. It is much more specific and nuanced than that. Republicanism is a lost to history organizational principle where elected officials are nominated by neighborhood delegates--something they learned from the Iroquois which created a dual incentive between governed and governing to stay connected to each other. That dual incentive (or covenant as they called it) is the real basis for republicanism because it is the actual practical principle that gives people control of their government.
Finally, consider the official titles of the following countries:
Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea)
Democratic Republic of Kampuchea (Pol Pot of Cambodia's Killing Fields)
Democratic Republic of Vietnam (the socialist state in Southeast Asia that existed from 1945 to 1976)
East Germany (officially the German Democratic Republic)
The Democratic Republic of the Congo
...every one a communist regime.
“A democracy is a volcano, which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction,” Ames thundered. “These will produce an eruption, and carry desolation in their way.”—Fisher Ames at MA state ratifying convention 15 Jan 1788
Not a founder, but a credible observer:
“Thus not only does democracy make every man forget his ancestors, but it hides his descendants and separates his contemporaries from him; it throws him back forever upon himself alone and threatens in the end to confine him entirely within the solitude of his own heart.” (Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” as quoted in Andrew M. Scott, Political Thought in America, New York: Rinehart & Co., Inc., 1959, p. 225.)
John Adams: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide” (1814).
John Marshall: ”Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”
Our Founding Fathers got it right. Hamilton was a purveyor of truth.
Our founding fathers were so wise. We would do well to study them and their thoughts closely as we hammer out our nation's path today.
While the founders certainly created the best system they could have, they simply could not have forseen some of the issues that ended up destroying the system they built. The Civil War and the 17th Amendment (pop election of senators) effectively ended states rights and sovereignty. The 16th Amendment (income tax) gave the federal government unprecedented power through the purse and along with the lack of term limits helped create a powerful, elite ruling class of career politicians. I have no doubt they would have addressed some of these issues more clearly had they seen what we have become.
As well as the allowance of dark money in politics and unlimited corporate contributions along with gerrymandering, all which supremely distort the idea of a majority voice and facilitate a small, powerful, mainly white, wealthy class to oversee everybody. This is going to crumble eventually as the vast majority of people become unhappy with the gov as they determine they aren’t getting their needs met nor are fairly represented. One issue that threatens to overturn the powerful few is abortion. In fact it is already making a huge difference in recent elections as women and youth are rising up to vote in favor of those who support this once understood constitutional right. The 2024 elections will be interesting. If enough pro democracy folks gain power we may see term limits, the undoing of the electoral college, the overturning of unlimited corporate donations, the end of dark money and the banning of all gerrymandering which would go a long way to restoring the power of the majority of everyday people. And that is a lot, but who knows...
You lost me. Where exactly in the constitution does it talk about abortion?
Alexander was a smart cookie for sure. Our founding principles were(and are)sound. It is unfortunate that we lost our sense of true deliberation and compromise to give the people all of the freedom they deserve.🇺🇸
Truth.❤
Not surprising to hear historical truth from Tara Ross. God bless you Tara.👍🙂
Popular Vote winners seldom are the best candidates for an elected position. So, yes, Hamilton got it right. Just look at what’s going on nationally with State Election offices…especially the ones where conspiracy theories still exist surrounding the 2020 election! Yikes!!
I disagree. Consider for example the margin of Clinton over Trump (3 million votes). And she was clearly the better candidate. And Gore over Bush. Just as examples.
I don’t know your political perspective and don’t care. I tried to base my comment agreeing with what Hamilton wrote. Not necessarily disagreeing with you but having said that, I didn’t vote for any of those candidates in both those elections. So, saying Clinton and Gore were better candidates doesn’t mean anything to that argument. You didn’t ask but my belief is none of those you mentioned were particularly impressive. So, thanks for your response. I appreciate it.
Democracy becomes Mob Rule wherever tried!
Our Constitutional Republic became the most Prosperous and Generous nation the world had ever know because our National and State legislators and Judiciary followed our Constitution as written!
Now, as we move further from Constitutional governance?
It is very difficult for me to respond to today's post without becoming terribly negative. The lack of term limits and the presence of greedy career politicians has made our Constitution a barely recognizable foundation of the Federal government.
Alexander Hamilton and his fellow founders would not recognize the government they created.
Thank you Tara.
Exactly.
Our constitution has been changing over time. It’s time to restore it using Article V. Check out Conventionofstates.com
People come together to solve problems. Each with its own motivations, but willing to compromise for the common good. Each having a common respect for the other. Wow! And to think had zippers been invented yet?
Tara, a special friend was kind enough to share your Hamilton note with me. Thank You for being the True Patriot with a quill, I'm looking forward to reading more of the great knowledge You freely share,
YMHS in History
Rich D
Thank you, Tara.